Click on photo to open in new window in full size. The box was slightly different in the fact that instead of laying down inside the box, the bottle would stand up snugly inside a small plinth, in which the box lid would slip over making a cover. The stopper was not inside the bottle itself but was inside a tiny cardboard box which was included in the presentation box. The perfume was sealed with a cork covered in a thin plastic seal. The bottle and inner box. Click on photo to expand in new window in full size. If it did so, it was not for much longer. There was also some mythical thing people talked about called The Marly Horse.
The Shalimar bat bottles are Baccarat and you can see how they gleam in the light. The question is, what exactly is that time frame?! I have no definitive or clear answer. And the Guerlain Perfumes blog makes no mention of a Marly horse design on any parfum bottle, either. Another thing to look at is the colour of the velvet boxes themselves. Neither Marly horse logos nor oldish-looking, pinkish mauve boxes should drive your search because the thing that matters above all else, in my opinion, is juice colour. If you focus too much on the look of the presentation box or whether it has a horse on it, you may miss out on a truly fantastic bottle of fragrance.
This fragrance was just that powerful and rich. I have no idea how old this bottle is, and the age signs are extremely confusing. Now, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a s bottle — nothing at all! There were three reasons why I put aside the whole s possibility and bought the bottle anyway. In person, it is such a dark mahogany, walnut brown that it looks almost black from a distance.
At that point, one has to look at the actual bottle itself for clues as to its age. The simplest and easiest starting point when it comes to vintage Shalimar is to look at the actual label on the bottle itself. Does it have one word on it, or more? As a side note, this label analysis only applies to the Bat parfum bottles. You know what the kicker is? And you know how I know that? This is mids or after. The bottle on the right is older.
Vintage Shalimar extrait, 1 oz bottle by Saint Gobain, circa You can see that the words seem to be cut into the glass, and that each one has a relative depth. This method of treating or cutting the glass was a newer thing because, previously, the letters on the base were etched in acid.
But at least the photo below shows you what it looks like in the late s: Raiders of the Lost Scent now has a Guide to Guerlain Stickers , so you should also pay attention to the stamps or stickers in the photos below because the stickers, their wording, and their colour are major indicators of age, as the captions will explain:.
Sticker from the s to late s. Compare the look and wording of those stickers with the one below which dates from to Letters carved into base of a vintage Shalimar EDT bottle. Photos by Basenotes member, Ayelfior. I recently found myself in the position of trying to figure out just how big the bottle was based on nothing more than its height in inches. The price was fair and the photo of the presentation box showed an indentation that — proportionally speaking and relative to the rest of the box — would seem to suggest that the bottle was a large one.
It really is a brilliant piece of work. It would be a ballpark estimate and far from certain or specific, but even knowing that a bottle was a s to s one could be useful. None of the Baccarat information on her list comes with a date. Figuring out the height-size connection from the listings requires working backwards. And, once again, all the height measurements go from the very top of the glass stopper down to the bottom of the base.
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Those are not all the bottle sizes, measurements, or weights, so you should check the actual post. Plus, we know that, from to roughly , Pochet manufactured bottles in different heights and sizes until Saint Gobain took over. Be that as it may, at least the height measurements can give you a general idea of when your bottle was produced. So, if any eBay seller says that their bottle is 5. No decent seller could or should possibly refuse such a simple, reasonable, and easy request that involves nothing more than them getting out a ruler to measure their item from top to bottom.
The most minimalistic, nutshell, simplistic guidelines:. To sum them up:. That does not mean the bottle dates to ! It should be a mix of letters and numbers, and it will give you the actual date of the perfume. They were typically the ones who had stumbled across a bottle by accident, who never sold perfume, or who had been left the bottle by a relative. They simply wanted to get rid of it without going to the trouble of a lot of fancy photos or details.
And they rarely had much information about the bottle beyond, perhaps, its measurement in inches. These listings may look good on the surface but, if you arm yourself with knowledge, you can get much better deals elsewhere and some of them may end up to be astonishing bargains! In contrast, when I plug in the same search today, the combined total is a mere 37, and a number of those listings are for completely empty bottles or for the Parfum de Toilette.
We all survived this monster post and the Shalimar marathon! Nothing would make me happier than if this ridiculously long post helped you to find a great and really old bottle for a good price.
I am in awe and thank you so much. I am lover of Shalimar, or Guerlain in general, so it is of huge value for me. The cork provided a somewhat elastic effect, hence nothing was destroyed. Wonderful details and additional information on the Avion bottles, Martina! Thank you for sharing it. Thank you so much for this exhaustive and invaluable piece of research. All your readers must be eternally grateful. It turned out to be something completely insane , even by my standards. Will you let me know how you fare, either during your hunt or once you find a bottle?
My first search has been a total disaster, with lots of Parfum Imitial and huge amounts of vintage advertisements. But I will persevere and make you proud!!! Enjoy your rest and try not to turn into a cockroach. Use the search links I provided at the end of the post, Mary. It should cut through all the flotsam and dreck. That means a lot coming from you.
You had us all worried there for a while. Shalimar parfum has been my most loved fragrance since I was a young girl, which predates zig-zag boxes. You really should give the old Shalimar montre watch bottle cologne a try at some point, since it can often be had quite reasonably and if only for the knowledge. I, like you, do not care for light concentrations and am not a fan of typical fresh citrusy colognes — but the Guerlain Shalimar cologne of the 60s and early 70s is neither very light nor fresh.
Impressive longevity, incensy, light leather, great throw. Your description of the EDC version is intriguing and reassuring. I will definitely keep an eye out for a bottle as a result. Thank you, Lady May. What time and effort you have invested in this so very interesting and educational three posts. When I started with perfumes around three years ago, I tried so hard to put one and one together.
Here now, is an absolute wealth of information and, even more so, experience and admiration. On a slightly cautious note: I might be wrong; perhaps there are updates coming along? This must have happened within the last 24 hours, as I looked up some things yesterday night Continental time. I have the text part saved since the whole thing earlier this year with Monsieur Guerlain. Thank you for the kind words on the guide, but also for alerting us to the situation with the Raiders page and its subsequent return.
I appreciate all the hard work you put into these posts. As I write this I am holding my Marly Horse box in my left hand. However, the acid etching on the base is readable from above if that makes sense. The stamp is there, with 44 printed as part of the stamp, but I can see a very faint 20 in the white area. I read through a couple of times and I may have missed it, but was there a time period where they etched the base so you read it from above versus read from below?
Could that be an indicator of age? Forgive me if I missed this. I must say the sheer amount of information is kind of daunting but ultimately, so incredibly useful! You definitely rekindled a fire for vintage-Shalimar in me. Stick to the summaries or synopses at the end of the post as an initial starting-off point because they would probably be easier. Then, later, if you want, you can delve into the detailed sections for any further information that may pop up as a factor in your searches.
I also got a Marly box in a satisfyingly dusty purple. The juice has darkened a little bit, but not nearly as much as your Avion bottle judging from the pics. I paid a decent price, too and the seller was fantastic, it arrived in mint-condition. I am having a Mitzah-like meltdown I think.
Thank you SO MUCH for all the information, I would never even have thought about looking on American ebay without you and your massive amount of knowledge, much less been able to actually find a worthy bottle. Ahhhh I have realized a years-long dream. After reading your reaction, I feel as emotional as you do, cherie.
Anything compared to your Mitzah reaction is wonderful news. There was such an indescribable euphoria, such giddiness, such an overwhelming feeling that it practically swept over my brain and body, impacting my nose. At least, I hope that is how it was for you, too. My suggestion to you is to go after a really old bottle of the EDT as well. It also has advice to switch the cork stopper for the crystal one when opening the bottle after the first use. One might not know if a bottle with a glass stopper is an Avion one or not.
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As I noted in the update to Part I, the seller subsequently found and sent me the glass stopper in its little square box with the writing you describe, and the other cardboard box, so in this case, too, everything had been kept together. Ultimately, though, the only real thing that makes an Avion bottle stand out is its rarity and, in my opinion, none of that matters as much as what the fragrance smells like. For me, at the end of the day, age and its impact on the scent will always be more important than packaging.
What a cool read this series has been! In contrast, old Emeraude just knocks me out. I have never tried any Seriously Vintage Shalimar, though, and maybe that makes the difference… but probably not, given my usual tastes. Thank you for the kind words on the research. What an incredible and exhaustive body of work. I am impressed and grateful for this guide. I read every word and checked out the Guerlain blog.
I was not a Shalimar lover, but your guide sent me on a quest to find the magical 60s extrait or an aged EDT.
A Guide to Vintage Shalimar – Part III: Bottle Designs, Dating Bottles & eBay Tips
I am dead sure is not a Gobain bat; it looks more like Pourchal and is just over 3 inches. The perfume has a long,, lemony raw bergamot topnote before going to vanilla and jasmine. No amimalic note detected. I estimated it at early 80s. None of this would be possible without your guide. Do you like the scent of the one you bought? Are you tempted to go after some even older versions now?
Vintage Shalimar can become quite an obsession, at least it did for me in terms of hunting out older bouquets. The more I wore it, the more I wanted to explore the scent across time. I wondered what all the hype was about until I read your articles. Are you referring to the labels that look like postage stamps? White with blue writing and often a number in a square within? I wish I could.
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And the stamp thingy is two colors, mostly blue, some orange. The stopper is lovely, grooved, frosted glass. Hi Kafka, maybe here you could find some useful infos….. What a Superb finding! Dear Andre, you and Elena are fantastic, a truly invaluable resource to the entire perfume community. My kudos to the both of you.
Which one do you buy? Also, at the top of the web page, I have an appraisal service available if you need valuations. I have an 8oz Clock flacon with the glass stopper. The center circle is filled in with I'm assuming fake pearls and diamonds mostly. There are 4 ruby like gems in the very center setting of the circle holding a larger diamond.
Would you know what perfume it is and this flacon's worth empty? Hi, this was someone's craft project or idea of upcycling. I often find craft projects like this with different perfume bottles. As it is, there is no value, I am sorry to say. You cn add some flowers to make it a cute bud vase! All comments will be subject to approval by a moderator. Comments may fail to be approved or may be edited if the moderator deems that they: Please understand that this website is not affiliated with Guerlain in any way, it is only a reference page for collectors and those who have enjoyed the classic fragrances of days gone by.
The main objective of this website is to chronicle the history of the Guerlain fragrances and showcase the bottles and advertising used throughout the years.
However, o ne of the other goals of this website is to show the present owners of the Guerlain perfume company how much we miss the discontinued classics and hopefully, if they see that there is enough interest and demand, they will bring back these fragrances! Please leave a comment below for example: Looking to Buy Vintage Fragrances? This is meant as a guide only and is a work in progress. Discrepancies may occur as bottles were used and reused over the years, some years, as a result, sizes and bottles might not correspond.
If you have information to add, please let me know. Flacon Abeilles Bees - c - Present Used for eaux de cologne and eaux de toilette. Made by Pochet et du Courval. You could get your bee bottle personalized with your monogram or the bees painted with gilded enamel. Beautiful ancient amphora styled flacon, sometimes you may find this with enameled designs. Extremely rare and exceptional bottle decanter-style "Vinaigrier Ottoman" colorless glass, molded, pressed cylindrical section, the lobed bulbous belly, high funnel neck, richly decorated with polychrome painted designs of oriental hand stopper olive red and blue painted richly accented with gold, created by Pochet et du Courval glassware.
Model available at that time on special order. Stands 21 cm tall. Flacon quadrilobe was made by various manufacturers such as Baccarat, Pochet et du Courval and Cristalleries de Nancy to hold extraits for various perfumes. Some later bottles hold eaux de toilette or eaux de parfum. Flacon Brun Fume Brown Smoke c -? Candide Effluve was reissued in this Baccarat flacon as a limited edition in October Triangular shaped bottle; the stylization of the Guerlain name across its shoulder, becomes the body of a snail from which it takes its name.
Flacon Mauresque Moorish c -? Bottle created by Pochet et du Courval for various perfumes.