Furious weapon cleave teams are a pretty rough test for the s: Is excelent, the unique problem is that the money lasted a long time to arrive. The rest is excelent. Bought a few times off them and all orders have been great! Always on time and fast. Very very good service and price!
I will definitely use again! This is like my 3rd or 4th order from them, first one was over a year ago. So how am I supposed to enjoy this? Let's not even mention the fact that I'll never see gear, although it was better in BC. I know I'll never get the top gear and therefore I'm doing it more for fun, but the easiest gear was at least a target before. Is the middle point now? Can we please get some sort of estimate of where most casual teams stand these days? I don't wanna know how your system works, but give us some hope please.
I keep seeing my rating dropping below I know we're not elite arena players, but we're not THAT terrible. You know, I kinda just wanna keep losing games until it becomes less than 20 points a loss, then maybe I'll have a feeling of accomplishing something when I win a game To me it seems you didn't know where the hidden ratings would land once you threw the new calculations at players.
Turns out it's throwing most casual players around from what I'm reading. Yet, your gear allocation and minimum ratings were all based around being the most common rating. So we have gear requirements that do not match what the wow population is now at with the new calculations. I suspect the comments about gear in this thread confirm my theory. So we're looking at much lower gear requirements next season. Or you could shift up all the ratings by points. I just can't understand why you didn't check averages, standard deviations and other stats on your hidden ratings before pushing them live.
Arena & Matchmaking Value
Coming up with hidden ratings consistently lower than current team ratings should have raised a flag surely, don't you think? Shadoweric, to try to clarify what was happening under the hood here's a report of the games your team played. My following post comments as to what was going on with the system it's too long to all post in this one. Comments on the results Your team lost versus a team we believed to be of around skill, so the system starts trying to aggressively lower the quality of your opponents to see if you do better the lack of confidence the system had in your rating is why it is changing your MMR quickly at ths point.
That's six losses in a row to teams far below your team's currently displayed rating, your currently displayed rating of is pretty high considering the teams you're losing to and the game believes you are probably not skill. Your team only gains 1 team rating, because after all your team's visible rating is already , and this win was merely versus a skill team. Your matchmaking rating goes up by 40 points though, as the game thinking there's definitely a chance you're better than rating. Your matchmaking rating is going up meaningfully, but since these teams are rated so far below your team's rating, you aren't gaining much for it.
Welcome to Reddit,
As some of you might see, the matchmaking rating actually adapts very quickly. By no means are you pigeonholed at a rating, it adapts more quickly in many respects than a traditional Elo system. Part of the point of the responses I've been making are to try to illustrate a belief I have that many people are associating their lack of fun with the new math behind the rating system. I totally believe that Shadoweric and players in similar situations are not having fun, but not because of the math behind the new system that finds equivalent opponents for their team, but for two other reasons.
Teams that are below in terms of their effectiveness in arenas feel crappy because the rating they start a team with is as high a rating they'll see in a long time until they improve, or possibly ever. Gear that most players consider to be worth their time including the players below rating have requirements that are too harsh relative to how hard it is to get "good" gear through other parts of the game including by buying hateful gladiator gear for emblems.
What I'm getting from this is the system has a serious problem matching people way below their team rating.
Just consider the 4 wins he had where he only gained 1 to 6 points. Why was this match made in the first place. If thats all he's gaining its pointless to even have played those games. So the system can adapt, very very slowly. Sorry if that sounded like QQ, its just very discourging. Honestly, that appears to be the opposite of what's going on. That's a good thing.
That's what we plan to do, along with revising rating requirements and a few other tweaks. What about the other end of the spectrum?
I'm pretty much the opposite of the OP, with two teams in Gladiator range at the moment. You are investing a lot of resources in making sure the bottom rungs of the ladder are having fun; this is a good thing no doubt. But you talk about the need for gear rewards for the people playing at and ratings. Where does that leave the players who are actually good at arena? You seem to be saying to the low ranked players "we understand that playing the game alone isn't enough, and that you need a reward structure of worth to feel you've accomplished something.
More likely, you've shifted the "fun for funs sake" role from the bad players to the good players. Is it simply an issue of scale? There are a lot more bad players to appease than good players to appease, so thats where you need to focus? Or are you also aware that through this, there needs to be a worthwhile reason to compete at the high end as well, and not just for competition's sake?
WoW, to me, is about personal progression first and foremost; be it in professions, raiding, farming, or PVP. Are you prepared to devalue the achievements of the top end to appease the masses at the low end? I've got Deadly Shoulders. This, to me, was an accomplishment. It sounds like you now view that structure as a failure. Presumably top pvpers can and do, but this was only around 2. It's the same way in any game. You get losers who dodge, win trade, and other slimy shit these no lifers do.
Win trading is strictly against the TOS ans you will get banned for it. Dodging is fine, there really isnt anything you can do to counter that. Top-tier RBGers have been breaking the ToS for years win trading, cash boosts, bug exploits , they just get around suspensions through alt accounts. Blizzard won't hardware-ban any of them like they do in Overwatch because it's a dead bracket that doesn't generate nearly enough subscription revenue as PvE.
Dodging wouldn't be an issue if there were more teams queuing up.
There is a mentality in upper rated battle grounds of easy wins via dodging your higher rated friends teams. It's not so much getting a lower rated team more so than getting any other team. Some teams can really get yer goat, even teams you've played and beat previously. You hedge your bets when queuing at high rating. And they would normally take the first one to see how it is unless they just know.
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There's no competition queueing into a high rated comp that hard-counters yours. You just lose rating. Very understandable to just quit for the night when the only other team queueing at your MMR is running a comp that's almost impossible for yours to beat. Top-end players often seek competition in preparation for tournaments, but since RBG tournaments are non-existent, all that matters is topping the leaderboards, even through cheap tactics. There's still a decent amount of rock-paper-scissors. They want fair competition, thats why they do this. Some matchups are so one-sided you are happy if you win 1 in 9 with equally skilled players.
Thats why they dodge. A rank one account to sell. These guys had the same issue https: Seems like some next level wintrading, or a bug. Nah, top level teams get that high playing against random groups pretty easily. When you're already a top 5 team with top tier players, it's hard to lose. The team mmr goes up a couple hundred per win too. Pvp has always been like this, last couple expacs I've tried to get back into arena.
They need to reincentivize regular team play. We don't have soloqueue yet, but we have soloqueue toxicity which is like the worst from both worlds. There's no reason for players not to treat each other like shit, or to learn together as a group anymore so they don't. I'm not saying there weren't shit heads back in bc and wrath, but the nature of the game encouraged cooperation even if it meant giving newer players a chance to catch up in skill and rating so you would have people to play with.
I can't stand PuG pvp, especially in rbgs. But it's getting harder and harder to form regular teams because people just put up with LFG groups to knock out their weekly conquest. A big part of that was the team aspect of the game that WoW has started to lose. So if soloqueue is going to be implemented in WoW it can't be introduced as an alternative game mode because this will undoubtedly kill premade groups outside of the pro level. And frankly I couldn't care less about the game being optimized for pro league if it means making the game less fun for the average player.
I think that has sort of been the trend lately with games that are practically more popular as spectator sports. On the flip side, you can find people you mesh with well and add them to your friends list to queue together. Additionally, you could have separate queues for premades and soloq. The fact of the matter is that the only person who ever cared for PVP at blizzard was Holinka and he's gone.
Former devs have come out and said that even through cata, blizzard viewed PVP as a complete afterthought. I'm all for soloque as long as it's not a solo bracket. I would love to meet people in soloqueue and I think there should be an option like in casual to stay together as a team after a match is over. The system is there so you can gradually become teammates including then option to enable in game voice chat so you don't even have to commit to joining a discord. But the moment they separate the brackets, the general inclination for players to take the easiest route available will kill the team queue bracket for the majority of players.
How is that first part different than it how it is now? Every partner I've played with since I got my first 2k in arena has been through premade group finder, I got gladiator with a team I found in premade group finder for 2. I don't think people hate it, but there is a very explicit barrier to entry for new players looking to get into pvp.
That wouldn't stop you from queuing into hard-counter comps.
The main issue is Blizzard is still tuning all classes around 3v3 making 10v10 heavily utility-dependent. I don't think that's a reasonable excuse for not having soloq. There are extreme hard-counters in DOTA and nobody complains about that. Losing to a hard counter in 3v3 takes just a few minutes, whereas an RBG match takes minutes depending on matchmaking. Memes aside, in Dota there is the ban-pick phase and a multitude of items you can buy during the game to counteract the hard counters.
Always been like that. If you don't have a group to progress with and you miss any amount of time you're shit out of luck for a while. I mean as a newbie, I can very rarely get into a group. So getting into one where some people leave is honestly a step up from being declined repeatedly in the group finder. What I dont understand is the significant amount of people with " cr, 2k exp be same". If you have 2k exp, surely you dont really care what exp your partners have when you are sitting at cr right?
I have this same issue. My PvP friend from back in the day has this same mentality, he thinks this server is the best place for PvP or this server is where the high warlords are. The chances of seeing the same enemy in any given BG is laughably low now and those kind of communities are dead. I used to know like everyone on my server.
The lack of community really makes it hard for me to play again. Also I really hated when they got rid of arena rosters. I think I'm missing something, but doesn't that just make sense? Why would anyone care what your experience in Wrath was when Legion was an entirely different game? This is just bullshit lol. My 2,2k in 3s, 2s and rbg are all from and I don't have any problems getting into 2. If you didn't clear heroic last week you're behind and stuck getting groups where people on average are worse not better than last week.
The first week of mythic dungeons just about everyone was pretty good. Now it's a struggle to get through a lot of them. I've been saying for a long time that you should be able to solo queue for rated bgs. All it would do is make them easier to get into and it would give people a way to farm conquest on their own. I see no negatives to this. People at high ranks can still group or, or you can just keep going solo forever.
I feel like overwatch is a good comparison to this. It's all solo queue even for ranked games. This is also the place for fun modes like brawls. When you're comfortable, you start queueing ranked matches.
Can you imagine the uproar if overwatch required you to form a party for ranked games? It wouldn't make any sense, yet it's their philosophy in wow. WoW is an MMO. Its the same reason you can't queue for Mythics, they want to incentivise social behaviour because in the long term getting players to form social groups is better for the health of the game. You use group finder, which is just as realistically detached and anonymous as queuing.
You are just as likely or not to make long-term social attachments in either way. Just one is a lot easier to use than the other. Group finder for dungeons is a cesspool of toxic behavior and ridiculous requirements and I'm very certain as a game developer that a good matchmaking system would be far superior. I understand this, however when it comes to pvp, I think there is an inherent social aspect regardless of group forming- it is competitive by nature and at all moments you are competing against other real players. PvP, specifically RBGs are in a terrible state and have been for years because of their inaccessibility.
Groups typically require ridiculous standards ie xp last season ONLY!!! Type groups, and even those that don't, struggle in an absurd length of time to reach a decent 10 man comp, only to lose two players every match by nature of the length. There is nothing to be gained socially by sitting around in LFG waiting for a tank to apply for 20 minutes, eating into other players available time.
This is exacerbated by the fact that there is no reason to play rbgs other than the vanilla rank appearances. All other rewards are obtainable through much more efficient means in the arena. If participation were much higher I might agree, but i think that the only way to really revitalize RBGs is to open them up to a greater portion of the player base by making them solo queue-able as they're inherently social as even if you don't talk to your teammates you are battling other players, and simultaneously add some new rewards.
I actually sort of agree. I'd like to PvP, but find it hard to break in. Having a queue rather than weird requirements would allow me to get some practice in so I actually know how it works. You can't even figure out how it works because you need to know how it works before you can participate. And PvP is a lot more competitive and it seems less like people want to help out each other. I was mostly just saying what I believe Blizzard believes. Instead of people helping each other and making friends they're not giving people the time of day unless they are deemed worthy enough.
The people who want to socialize will socialize, We don't need to be forced to do so. Those who don't, still won't regardless of if they have to make a group themselves.
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We are long past the age where players want to be social anymore. People want the rewards, and the best way to do that is to get carried, and theres really no way around that in a premade-only system. I put together a group last night with low CR specifically saying it was a chill group for no ragers thinking I'd be waiting forever for healers or I'd be getting fresh 's throwing their name in.